The 85 kWh battery in the Sports jacket, Equinox, Optiq, and Prologue is now the lowest voltage EV in America, if you don't count golf carts and side by sides that is. What does that mean in practical terms? It suggests slower charging as existing (amps) is usually speaking the huge limiter when it pertains to DC quick charging.
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Good video! From what I’ve read elsewhere, the current Ultium modules are internally wired 3P8S to get that 29v/module, but GM has/had planned 2P12S modules to get maybe 43v/module.
Then they had all the issues with module assembly and they stuck with trying to make that 3P8S module work in everything.
I wonder if they can switch to 2P12S modules in the future for these smaller packs for higher voltage charging as they get caught up on their module assembly lines?
It has a wireless BMS to accommodate that change.
Yes, but it would require that the motors, charger, and inverters get redesigned for the higher voltage packs
@EVBuyersGuide Possibly but doubtful….
Since those components can handle a range of parameters, specifically in terms of voltage and amperage. And it wouldn’t be surprising, if some of the components were from the higher voltage Ultium vehicles
What’s the proof that those specific components can’t handle the higher voltage? Just curious, since the reply was so short and definitive.
I’ve spoken with the Ultium engineers in detail about this. The reason they have not used the higher voltage modules in an Ultium vehicle yet is that it would require a unique set of components. The current design chargers and inverters are designed for the 8-12 module batteries (we have yet to see an 8 module version), and there was supposed to be a common set of components for other variants, but we don’t have those yet.
@@EVBuyersGuide That still doesn’t address possible scenarios. For example why they didn’t use the higher voltage modules for the 8 module packs. Since they already have higher voltage components from the 12 module packs And which could have resulted in higher DCFC performance. At the average 150 kW charger.
It just would have cost more. Since mass producing the same lower voltage output modules across the lineup is more cost effective. Seems like the bean counters won.
Just a thought for future EV posts how about if you get some OEM engineers to talk about the design of EVs? And why certain decisions were made? Straight from the horse’s mouth. talking about horses, I think we’ve beaten this dead horse enough lol… Thanks for the feedback.
Thank you for explaining this. I realized this on my EV6 pretty early when I saw that it would get something like 180 kw on the 150 kw chargers. I started charging on the 150 kw chargers because they seem more reliable to me. It doesn’t hurt the charging time too much either. Maybe like 6 minutes longer than on the 350kw charger (I’m usually only trying to recharge 150 miles of range to get to the next charger). I also was thinking it would preserve my battery to charge on the 150kw chargers. But that doesn’t seem to be the case with new research. Seems like you can do whatever you want to an EV battery and it will be just find for 10+ years haha.
I really wish everyone would go to higher voltage cars. It would bring down costs for everyone. And it would make charging easier for cheaper vehicles. My EV6 never seems to have thermal struggles with charging. Even on these insanely hot days, the charging speed never seems to be affected (unless it is being limited at the station, I’ve seen some stations that wouldn’t give 86 kwh no matter what car you had). So if everyone moved to say 800v, you could charge an equinox at 200kw with just 250 amps. That’s nothing when it comes to heat generation. Should be super easy to cool that battery down.
Maybe a different EV connector for the different types of voltage, thus preventing someone from connecting to a HV charger and let it sense any adapter, thus preventing the cheaters.
And in NorCal, the number one reason a slow charging car is at a 350kW charger is that it was the only one available when it was that car’s turn to charge. There is also a 200A cable limit on some chargers which does not help the situation.
Yeah you don’t often get to choose; it’s just whatever is working and available when it’s your turn
some great knowledge shared here!
I didn’t know pack voltages varied so much, since everyone just says 400V or 800V. All the nuances to charging is definitely very confusing for the average consumer.
The big problem is that it is complex and not something you can explain in 2 senctences. People just want something easy like higher number is better. And the automotive world has always been that way Fortunately more and more DC Fast Chargers are becoming 350kW chargers, which also fixes the problem.
Thanks, this is a pretty nuanced wrinkle in the ultium platform design. Good info.
I don’t get it. Why aren’t these companies creating standardized metrics to allow seamless charging, route planning etc ? I thought they were creating a charging network together to challenge EA?
GM is building a network, though many EV news outlets are reluctant to really talk about it. I featured one of the first “Ultium Ready” EVgo charging locations several years back, and since then, GM Energy/EVgo have built several hundred 350 kW split-power charging stations across the country. Most are isolated to metro regions right now, but GM Energy/EVgo are also partnered with Pilot Flying J to build out a number of travel corridors featuring these 350 kW chargers. So at least within the GM ecosystem, they are directly supporting this battery configuration.
Thank you for supplying the public with knowledge. It is hard to explain to the general public that just because the specification has a maximum, doesn’t mean the company designed their equipment to the maximum. OEM’s are doing a disservice to their customers by not being transparent or explaining this in layman terms.
Agreed! There are three factors (amps, volts, watts) mathematically related yet each will have its own maximum limit in both the charger and the car. Ideally both would report the limit being encountered, but as companies like to point fingers if at least they each reported the others limiting factor it would be very helpful. Helpful not only for the frustrated driver, but perhaps also so that driver could explain to others frustrated while waiting.
I wonder what a few kwh of super capacitors costs… Take 5-10kwh of power quickly, and then feed it to the battery after disconnecting from the charger. Some claim supercaps would also help regen, but I’m not sure about that.
Alex in your “X month living with the Blazer EV” video, can you please talk about how much not having CarPlay has affected you. I’d like to get the Blazer but as an Apple Music subscriber, I can’t bring myself to accept listening to music via bluetooth.
I think the dividing line on 400V vs 800V is pricing. There will be plenty of 400V EVs coming out. 800V will be geared for more expensive/premium/luxury EVs. For example, the EV3 vs the EV6.
At least until the component prices come down. 400v capable electronic components are pretty common because 240v A.C. in residential service has a peak voltage of nominally 340v but over 400v is still within spec. A typical switching power supply has to be able to rectify and chop that voltage and the same type of components are used in motor controllers and battery chargers. Any components for higher voltage are industrial or special purpose which makes them much more expensive, beyond just the additional capabilities.
Hi Alex, my 2024 Blazer EV identical to yours suffered a catastrophic failure with the HVB and DRIVETRAIN, after a week at the dealer it was deemed as “unfixable” and therefore I must initiate a buyback 😢 It only has 350 miles on it…..this sucks
I had no clue about this subtle issue. You have explained it in a great way. Thanks you!
It’s worth noting that the HPC150 standard allows for a peak current limit of 500A, however most 150 kW stations you’ll encounter out there are limited to 350A. This also causes issues at some of the even lower limit stations out there, we’ve found some of the new 7-Elevation branded stations limit current to 250A so they had a limit of around 70 kW on the Blazer at 5% SOC.
12:49 There appears to have been an update on this front. Out of Spec reached out to a Cybertruck owner who was seeing 320+ kW on a “V3+” that appears to be feeding 900 A rather than doubling the voltage. This makes sense because, so far, we haven’t seen Tesla bridge the voltages on their V3 cabinets and dispensers, and the beefier cables they are using on the V4 dispensers appear to be rated for 800 A (making 900 A a roughly similar boost to what they feed through their 631 A rated V3 cables). So I guess you could say that it looks like Tesla is doubling down on current rather than doubling up on voltage. 😀
On my EV6 I’ve been able to get about 97 kW on the Magic Dock Superchargers; not amazing, but much better than I expected
Our Ioniq 5 holds at the same 97 kW throughout most of the charge curve when using a Magic Dock equipped SC.
Thank you for the information. I have seen the same results on my VW ID.4 Pro S AWD.
I think the high vehicle prices, crappy infrastructure (in Ireland) and all this complexity that you describe in this video, are the reasons why I’m much less interested in EVs than I was 5 years ago.
This is great information. Thank you. Explains a lot. Around here it’s more expensive to use the 350 unit rather than the 150 unit. We find with the Bolt most 50 kW stations are free (and inconvenient) so there you go.
Awesome video, Alex! Great info and explanation.
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