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Supercharging A Kia EV9 Shows That Tesla Isn’t Ready For The 800V Revolution… Yet.

If you were hoping that Supercharger gain access to would reinvent charging, well … There are a couple of things you ought to understand. If you have a "400V" then yep, Superchargers are the place to go for dependable charging with brief cables and free adapters. If on the other hand you have an 800V EV like a Lucid, Porsche, or a Kia, Hyundai, or Genesis … Then things are a bit various. You see, V3 Superchargers don't natively put out the voltage needed to charge your battery. Yep, even on 800V EVs that aren't in fact 800V like this Kia EV9. In order to charge, these EVs have to increase the voltage using an onboard DC-DC conversion circuit that not just decreases charging effectiveness, it decreased charging speeds considerably. 10-80% in 20 minutes? Attempt an hour if you're low voltage charging … EV Tax Credits Explained:
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39 responses to “Supercharging A Kia EV9 Shows That Tesla Isn’t Ready For The 800V Revolution… Yet.”

  1. @RichardJoashTan Avatar
    @RichardJoashTan

    Glad that I will buy a Kia EV9 GT Line.

    Reply
    1. @masch570 Avatar
      @masch570

      After telling everyone that you were buying an Outlander PHEV, now you are telling everyone that you are buying an EV9?

      Reply
    2. @anthonyc8499 Avatar
      @anthonyc8499

      Or a Mustang Mach-E GT?

      Reply
  2. @steveallwine1443 Avatar
    @steveallwine1443

    Superchargers are reliable… too bad they’re still all limited to slow 400v charging, even though rigs like the Cybertruck are natively 800v too.

    Reply
    1. @user-fl4pi2ut9c Avatar
      @user-fl4pi2ut9c

      The CyberTruck doesn’t use the motor inverters as a transformer so it can pull the full 250KW. It doesn’t actually need a transformer because instead the 800v pack splits into 2 400V packs, which makes the charging efficiency higher, because of loss in step-up/setp-down. It’s basically the oposite of the Hummer EV which IMHO is the dumbest thing ever made. It uses 800V charging (more like 740v) and 370V drive units. Thats what you get when you outsource all your critical components for the “Ultium platform” and thats also why Tesla has already made more CyberTrucks then GM made Hummer EVs in it’s first 2 years of production.
      It’s honestly kinda sad, because Ive seen the hummer in person, and it looks pretty good… until the suspension fails after a week.

      Reply
    2. @angryGTS Avatar
      @angryGTS

      Yup and even the Cybertruck has issues at V3 Superchargers. Tesla needs to hurry up and roll out true V4 Superchargers already!

      Reply
    3. @angryGTS Avatar
      @angryGTS

      @user-fl4pi2ut9c  my statement still stands that it has issues at V3 chargers. Mainly you cannot just hop out and immediately charge, you have wait until it “switches over to 400v” and the cables barely reach even if you back up all the way.

      Reply
  3. @martman123456 Avatar
    @martman123456

    As long as they are installing more EA stations and the Mach-Es and VWs migrate over to Tesla chargers, this is still good for Genesis / Kia / Hyundai EV owners.

    Reply
    1. @newscoulomb3705 Avatar
      @newscoulomb3705

      Good luck prying anyone with a free charging account away from exclusively using EA stations.

      Reply
  4. @_valxp Avatar
    @_valxp

    Meanwhile my $80k Lucid Air only charges at 50kw on superchargers…

    Reply
    1. @EVBuyersGuide Avatar
      @EVBuyersGuide

      Yep. It’s a problem…

      Reply
    2. @junehanzawa5165 Avatar
      @junehanzawa5165

      That shows a total lack of foresight by Lucid. Relying on only 800 volt chargers is a total head scratcher.

      Reply
    3. @AAutoBuyersGuide Avatar
      @AAutoBuyersGuide

      @@junehanzawa5165 Not really. Almost all CCS chargers support 1000V charging and there was no realistic expectation that Tesla would open their network at the time the vehicles were built. Also, Tesla has said 1000V is the future and all V4 and later stations will be 1000V.

      Reply
    4. @AndrewVanTil Avatar
      @AndrewVanTil

      @@AAutoBuyersGuide It’s fair to say they couldn’t have predicted Tesla opening the SC network, but they could also have done more here. Splitting the pack like VAG(P) does would have provided flexibility. Porsche clearly saw the benefit to doing it, so it’s hard to give Lucid a complete pass here.

      Reply
    5. @junehanzawa5165 Avatar
      @junehanzawa5165

      @AAutoBuyersGuide  Tesla has been saying they will open their network for well of half a decade now. They opened it in Europe nearly 3 years ago now. It has taken Tesla just over a decade now to get their network installations to this point. It will be many, many years before V4’s come even close to the number of V3’s out there. They are still installing them on pre-permited sites. And the few V4 stalls out there still use V3 chargers. Banking just on EA and other CCS to bail you out is putting all your eggs in one basket. In business, that’s called a total lack of foresight. There’s no reason that pack should not have been designed to split in two from the start, or have added a more robust voltage down converter.

      Reply
  5. @jaywest7811 Avatar
    @jaywest7811

    Maybe because the vehicle did not precondition its battery for a fast charge?

    Reply
    1. @AAutoBuyersGuide Avatar
      @AAutoBuyersGuide

      Nope, the battery was fully conditioned. However, it would not have mattered because the battery will max at 84 kW hot or cold or anywhere between due to the voltage conversion circuitry.

      Reply
  6. @junehanzawa5165 Avatar
    @junehanzawa5165

    It’s a shame that as far ahead as the Hyundai/Kia group is over the rest of legacy, that they still use the rear motor inverter (basically regening) to convert down to 400 volts. That’s going to hurt them in the near term. Others use other options, such as splitting the 800 volts pack in two to bring it down to 400 volts, so they get the full power on V3 Superchargers.

    Reply
    1. @AAutoBuyersGuide Avatar
      @AAutoBuyersGuide

      Using the rear motor rather than a contactor is more reliable, lighter and honestly simpler. The 800/400V split packs we see in GMs SUVs have caused issues when they or the control software has failed leaving the vehicle unable to move. Even if the contactor in this system failed you’d be able to move and still AC charge.

      Reply
    2. @junehanzawa5165 Avatar
      @junehanzawa5165

      @AAutoBuyersGuide  You’re talking about GM. They can’t even get their software to work properly. Or get a fast charging EV on the market until now. Others do it without issues. Case and point, the Cybertruck. You can also go with a more robust converter. Even Kia knows that. That’s why their G80 can get up to 122kw on a magic dock. Still not good enough, but significantly better. I have no doubts they’ll get there on their next generations, but should have been done from the start.

      Reply
    3. @anthonyc8499 Avatar
      @anthonyc8499

      The rear motor inverter is an elegantly simple solution. A driver getting 97kW for their EGMP car with a 77kWh pack at a Supercharger results in a fair but unimpressive charging experience since the car holds 97kW flat past 80%.

      Reply
  7. @josephfisher8353 Avatar
    @josephfisher8353

    So it’s a Kia problem not a Tesla problem. I’ve used a Magic Dock to charge my Polestar 2 and pulled 155Kw

    Reply
    1. @redhat421 Avatar
      @redhat421

      Once the Superchargers are upgraded to support 800v vehicles, they will be the GOAT. 🙂

      Reply
  8. @GraysonA Avatar
    @GraysonA

    Yeah, only the V4 Superchargers will put out up to 1000V. Will need to wait until Q1 2025 when Hyundai/Kia/Genesis are allowed on Tesla Superchargers and adapters are given out. On V3 superchargers, the max speed is 105 kW for e-GMP vehicles.

    Reply
  9. @EVBuyersGuide Avatar
    @EVBuyersGuide

    Since some of you asked: Yes the battery was fully conditioned. No, it wouldn’t matter actually. We tested it with a cold battery the next day and the charge rate was the same. The limit is the DC-DC boost circuit, not the battery temp.

    Reply
  10. @thedownwardmachine Avatar
    @thedownwardmachine

    That Supercharger says $0.47/kWh but right now for me it says $0.35, so I guess non-Tesla customers pay a 1/3rd premium.

    Reply
    1. @EVBuyersGuide Avatar
      @EVBuyersGuide

      Yep, non Tesla owners pay a premium or you can get a monthly subscription to get a reduced rate.

      Reply
  11. @angryGTS Avatar
    @angryGTS

    The Cybertruck even has problems charging on the V3 Superchargers.

    Reply
  12. @COSolar6419 Avatar
    @COSolar6419

    With our Ioniq 5 I’ve gotten 97 kW on a Magic Dock equipped Supercharger. That is still better than the 50-75 kW possible on many of the DC fast chargers in rural areas of Colorado. Ironically most the current Magic Dock locations in Colorado are right next to ChargePoint Express stations capable of 200 kW with an Ioniq 5. I still appreciate having an alternative in places (Moab) where Magic Dock is the only CCS option for many miles.

    Reply
    1. @EVBuyersGuide Avatar
      @EVBuyersGuide

      Yep, the Ioniq 5 will charge faster because it has a power powerful rear motor and the charging speed is dependent on the DC-DC conversion capability of the rear motor’s electronics.

      Reply
    2. @anthonyc8499 Avatar
      @anthonyc8499

      97kW on a 77kWh pack is much better charging experience than 84kW on a 100kWh pack.

      On the Chargepoint paired CPE250 chargers, they’re marketed as 125kW but for 400v cars they only get 75-80kW. The Ioniq 5 can nearly max it out which makes for a nice charging stop.

      Reply
  13. @angryGTS Avatar
    @angryGTS

    Tesla needs to hurry up and roll out V4 Superchargers in the U.S. those will solve the 800 volt (even though the EV9 is not 800 volt) issues. The Cybertruck needs the V4 as well.

    Reply
  14. @Juvi79 Avatar
    @Juvi79

    Keep calm and drive TESLAs

    Reply
  15. @JohnSmith-uz3dt Avatar
    @JohnSmith-uz3dt

    It’s like EV mileage. I knock 60 miles off the listed range for a road trip. I add 25 minutes to the stated charge time.

    Reply
  16. @anthonyc8499 Avatar
    @anthonyc8499

    Sub-100kW charging power is a problem in general for electric vehicles like the EV9 and Mustang Mach-E. Until charging times to 80% or higher is reduced to 15 minutes or less, there’s going to be a significant layer of resistance from drivers to transitioning away from ICE.

    Reply
  17. @jeremyturner4402 Avatar
    @jeremyturner4402

    I did slightly better in an Ioniq 5, 97 kW. It was petty sustained. Still nothing like EA.

    Reply
  18. @berthogendoorn2133 Avatar
    @berthogendoorn2133

    Hi Alex, did you precondition the battery some time before showing up, I believe this model has manual battery precondition.

    Reply
  19. @newscoulomb3705 Avatar
    @newscoulomb3705

    I think an important point that was glossed over for a long time is that, in North America, almost every public charger faster than 50 kW has always been 800 V capable. Tesla really did go off on their own with their 400 V standard, but as we’re now seeing with bigger battery and 800 V EVs, that was a bit shortsighted. I really don’t think Tesla even needs V4 at this point. They just need to figure out how to double the cabinets at their V4 sites and enable both higher power (180 kW average power per stall instead of the current ~90 kW) and 800 V charging.

    Reply
  20. @peterwright837 Avatar
    @peterwright837

    Reminds me of my 7000 mile roadtrip in my Chevy Bolt. I’m just counting on more Ford and Rivian drivers using Tesla Superchargers, which will leave more CCS chargers available for the Hyundai, Kia, Genesis and Lucid vehicles.

    Reply

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